Dude!

[jedishampoo]

All right, someone has to go read and comment on these yuletide-smut fics, because none of them are getting enough love, especially the one for me, which is a GOOD 83 fic and you know how hard that pairing is to do? ;)

Really, though, the Saiyuki exchanges have run for a while not only on the work of the mod, but on having at least the participants trying to read and comment on most if not every fic, and that just hasn't been happening. It should be, though, because this fandom has the seriously best writers.

http://yuletide-smut.dreamwidth.org/

You just have to be 18 to read the fics. YAY!

Comments

[despina_moon]

THIS. So much

The fic I received is GLORIOUS and deserves so much more attention. But there are lots of excellent fics posted! I'm pretty disappointed in the overall lack of love, myself. I mean, I'm not a comment whore by any means, but how do I (and others) know if anyone reading?

Personally, I love the exchanges and I'd like to see them continue, but this is pretty discouraging.

[7veils]

+1.

It is discouraging for the writers, isn't it?

[rroselavy]

I'm not sure what I can do to get more people to comment (and not just the participants). There's @200 subscribers to each of the comms and all they do is lurk. Whenever I have urged people to leave comments the most I've gotten were snarky PMs.

It is disheartening.

[despina_moon]

Seriously, they do that to you? Wow. That makes me even more discouraged, and kind of angry. Does make me wonder why we bother.

[rroselavy]

Well, you know, people get defensive when they're called out.

[despina_moon]

Yeah. I know.

But I appreciate your work, Rrose! You've kept us going and I really appreciate it.

[rroselavy]

Thanks. I really love putting these exchanges together :-)

[jedishampoo]

I was thinking the same thing - they send nasty PMs? Really? Jerks. Well screw them, I say, but I'm not nice and hardworking like you are. <3

[rroselavy]

They felt the need to defend why they don't comment. *shrugs*

[despina_moon]

Yet they can't be bothered to comment? Sounds...circular.

[jedishampoo]

Well, they probably have a valid medical reason like when they read 535 their tits fall off or something. I know mine have fallen off reading 393 several times but hell, I just screw 'em back on.

[rroselavy]

It doesn't bother me if people don't read all the stories as much as people who do read and then can't be assed just to say "good job," or "thank you." (And I've always tried to have a full range of pairings to spread out the pain :p)

[despina_moon]

Exactly! Throw people a bone every now and again.

[jedishampoo]

I know, I'm just being silly. It does take effort in these days of e-reading, too, to go back and comment. It's just a frustrating culture for writers in general, anymore.

But like Des said, we appreciate your work, year in and year out! I have tons of fun participating.

[despina_moon]

Bwahahaha! Well done with the re-screwing of tits!!

Yeah, that "it's not my pairing" excuse/whine bugs the crap out of me. NONE of them are "ours" they're only facsimiles. And dude, I love 585 but I've read plenty of 585 stories that the characters are unrecognizable. But so what? That's someone's take on the pairing.

Plus, I decided I would write parings I didn't like or get, just to see what it was all about. Some of those weird-ass pairings I wrote have made me fall in love with those characters. (Ukoku is ♥ now for me and I used to despise him.)

[jedishampoo]

Plus: Kanzeon/Sharak? Zakuro and Dougan? RAREPAIRS FTW.

[despina_moon]

OMG!! I'm saving the Kanzeon/Sharek one!!

[rroselavy]

I dunno. It seemed disingenuous to me. And defensive. Maybe they just wanted to avoid commenting on certain authors' works.

[despina_moon]

Oh, I didn't think about that. Huh.

[whymzycal]

Well, you do say in the introductions to the comms that people ought to be commenting, so if they aren't, I say kick 'em out.

[rroselavy]

I've thought about limiting the communities to participants; but there are a few non participants who regularly read and comment. I could make membership to the comms based on participation ... though it would probably just alienate more people from the fandom. Perhaps I should post a poll or open a comment thread asking the community what should be done about lurking.

[jedishampoo]

Yeah, I can definitely see how it's hard to make those rules when it's limited already. We just have to hope people can make some time to participate?

[whymzycal]

Most of us end up posting our fics to AO3 after the reveals, so it's not like anyone would ultimately be missing out if you decided to make membership participation-based (unless they flounce and decide not to read, but since they're often the ones who don't comment anyway, it's not like we'll know whether they read our fics or not). Regardless of what ends up happening, I really enjoy getting the chance to pairings and prompts I wouldn't think of on my own, and these exchanges are pretty much the only outlet for that. So thank you for that! ♥

[whymzycal]

I've gotten through about half of them, and I'm pretty darned pleased with the quality this year. There's a lot of great stuff!

[despina_moon]

I've got a few left (one I'm saving) and I should be done!

[whymzycal]

I'd better start reading faster, eh?

[despina_moon]

Ahaha, you'll pass me in the blink of an eye!

[late4f8]

Mini-version: I'll go finish commenting. Please don't disband the comm because of readers not commenting! Our recipients are happy with their gifts! Thanks Rrose!

Long version:
I made several comments at yuletide, but I'm not done! and this was a great reminder to get back over and finish reading and comment!

It also makes me think of AO3, where folks kudo what they read without having to comment. At least then you know it's getting read because there's a count. But even so, it seems like more folks withhold their kudos for fics that 'wow' them, and not just to say, hey i read it and it's good. I never thought of kudos as a rating system. I use it to say I liked the story, whether it was the best in the world, or just gave me a smile. So, my kudos are all over the place, because pretty much if I read it and liked it on any level, I've kudoed.

Commenting is a weird animal. I watched an entire comm blow apart and dissolve over debating the topic. And it was particularly sad because the fandom was tiny with less than 500 people. But there were 10 or so prolific writers, and very few comments. It's often the writers commenting on each others stuff. Some folks were afraid that just saying 'good story, thanks,' wasn't enough. And one writer said they didn't think it was enough for all the work involved, which had an explosive effect - yeah, anyway, bad scene all around.

Some of us then decided that we write for ourselves first, and if folks comment and like it, then yay. That's just me though, and its not fair that some great stories don't seem to get enough comments. I do agree with that in general.

For Yuletide, I wrote for the giftee first, myself second. If anyone else reads and wants to comment, I'll be happy for those too! But most of all, I just wanted to know that the giftee enjoyed it. Extra comments are like extra sprinkles and sauce on my ice cream (I want them too, but I'll survive).

And I love the stories I received, and thanked them muchly!

And that goes for A03. Sometimes I look at the counts versus the kudos and wonder if I'm doing it wrong. But then I remember that *I like the story I've written, and it's okay.

To wrap a long post (sorry) I would hate to see any comm disbanded based on the lack of participation of readers. As a writer, I enjoyed it. As a gift receiver, I enjoyed the heck even more, and I'm betting each recipient enjoyed their gift.

Rrose, you are very much appreciated. I wish there was a better way for us to show it. I know comments would help, heh! But barring that, I could always try my mediocre drawing skills and offer you a big gold star or a banner for 'most patient mod of 2013'! :)

[jedishampoo]

Ack, I always hated it when I saw that argument from some writers that "great fic" or "thanks for writing this" wasn't enough for their work, because wanna talk about entitlement? Hee! Just a single word is fantastic for me, and always has been.

I think that was a thing more back in the day, though, when LJ fan culture was going so strongly and BNFs were getting dozens of reviews and whatnot and could afford to bitch about what they got, and not like today, when it seems sometimes that appreciation for ficwriting has dried up for all but a few fandoms.

I even appreciate the kudos now, because like you say, it's a case of at least we know someone is out there reading?

I don't have time to read every fic everywhere, even if I bookmark them for later reading. But I try to comment on everything I read. I think part of what's frustrating to me is that for a long time, the Saiyuki fandom was one of the very best for comments and reciprocation and participation. I am in Hetalia fandom, which at its height was fifty times bigger than Saiyuki ever was, and yet I'd still get more comments on a Saiyuki fic than anything I'd do for the biggest pairing in that gigantic fandom. Because especially in the Saiyuki exchanges (yuletide-smut, 7thnight, and valentine_smut), it seemed very participatory. But even that's dwindled and it's sad to me that many people just don't comment anymore.

I'm really a comment-whore, though, and always have been since I wrote my first fic in 1999. I love to write and I consider that my art and expression, but dang, do I love to hear if people like it or hate it or whatever. Just give me ATTENTION, hee!

Hugs and thanks for your thoughts! And YES we appreciate Rrose!

[despina_moon]

Honestly, I couldn't care less if I get comments (except from the person I wrote it for) but not everyone feels that way. We have lost some good writers over that exact problem--I always squirm over that. The Saiyuki exchanges are pretty much the only time I read fanfiction. If I can manage to read all or most of the stories and throw a comment, lame as it might be, I'm confused why others can't.

As for not knowing what to say, yeah, I've heard that excuse before. And sadly, some writers with crazy entitlement issues have been pissy about the substance of comments, but let's face it, that is the height of arrogance.

I think, at this point even a "Thanks for participating" comment would be appreciated.

[laurose8]

re counts v. kudos: perhaps some, at least, are repeats from people who *have* kudo-ed, and want to reread it? I've done that with a few AO3 fics. There's one, in another fandom, I'm reading every few days, and expect to reread more.